You know that feeling when you’re watching High Stakes Poker and a guy you used to hang out with pulls up a chair, drops a couple of hundred grand on the felt and promptly stings Phil Hellmuth for another seventy? No? Well, that’s what happened to me about a month ago. Now most guys might call him up and try to scam their way onto the show, but not me. Instead, I shook Mike down for an interview!
Mike was a Stanford classmate of mine and is now a hedge fund manager who lives in Los Angeles with his wife, one son and two daughters. You may have seen him on Episodes 2-7 of season 4 of High Stakes Poker in which he also stacked Eli Elezra with a set and Sammy Farha twice (both times with top pair). He did manage to dust off 100 grand to Elezra in his last hand but shrugs it off later in this interview.
In August 2007, Mike won Event #21 of the Legends of Poker $2k buy-in event, besting a final table that included tournament regulars Jimmy Tran and Shannon Shorr. It was his first hold’em tournament ever. I hate guys like Silent Mike.
A couple of us had the chance to spend some time with Mike early this week and ask him some questions about his recent poker experiences.
EdmondDantes
Hey…nice to see you, Mike. Congrats on your TV appearance and your Legends of Poker win. I have to tell you, I almost spit Diet Coke out my nose when you walked on the set and sat down.
Silent Mike
Thanks, I had a lot of fun.
Nath
So, what drew you to poker originally? Do you play a lot in LA?
Silent Mike
I’ve always enjoyed games ever since I was a kid. I like analyzing risk and developing what I think will be winning strategies. I played a little bit in college and b-school years ago. There was some dingy card room near the Stanford campus, I can’t even remember the name of it. In LA, I just got hooked up in a home game and that’s pretty much all I play.
Bond18
How exactly did you end up getting invited to the High Stake Poker game? And are you going back next year?
Silent Mike
I met Mori, the producer, in a home game I play in and he invited me to play, so I figured why not? I’m not sure what the plans are for next season, but if I get invited back, I would love to play again. It was a crack-up and my kids got a kick out of seeing their dad on TV.
EdmondDantes
Tell us about the format. How long did you play?
Silent Mike
I think I played ten hours total – four the first day and six the second day. They obvious edit out some hands.
Bond18
We assume you watched the episodes in which you played. Can you comment on the difference between what we see and what actually goes on? For example, it looks to us as if Jennifer rarely plays a hand. Is this true, or does it just appear this way from the editing? Approximately what percentage of the hands do they actually show?
Silent Mike
Well, as you probably know, most hands don’t get all that exciting and they select the bigger hands. The tighter players will get less action when they do play so the hands are not quite as entertaining, I guess. I’m pretty sure Jennifer played more hands than those they showed. They’re just picking ones that have some drama to them.
EdmondDantes
Any fun hands we didn’t get to see?
Silent Mike
I actually got deuce/seven six times and bluffed it through four of the times. I think they only showed two.
EdmondDantes
Nice.
Bond18
You looked very comfortable at the table with these big name pros. Did you have much experience playing in games this big and with players of this caliber?
Silent Mike
For some reason, I always feel comfortable playing games. This is obviously a big game but once you get into the rhythm of it, it’s just like any other game. Plus, I’ve played in games with some of these guys before so, other than the cameras, it wasn’t that uncomfortable. ‘Cept, of course, for my bust-out hand.
Nath
From what I saw you seemed to play well, but you've got to be aware that the "pros" consider you a "fish", right? How does that translate the table? Do they make it a friendly place to play or are there some guys who make it obvious that you're the reason they're there?
Silent Mike
Like I said, I enjoy the rhythm, and the interaction between people is a big part of that. I actually liked everyone, even Hellmuth when he wasn’t telling me how horrible I was. [Laughs] I imagine I am a fish relative to these guys who play everyday. I feel like I can play reasonably well, but I definitely don’t have the experience these guys have—particularly putting guys on hands.
Bond18
Did you have a specific strategy going in? From what we saw, you seemed to be willing to mix it up and play a wide range of cards. Is this simply the way it looked because of the editing and hands they showed or were you really playing this loose? If so, what was your thinking here?
Silent Mike
For me, cash games and tournaments are very different. In cash games, I do play a fairly wide range of hands because often times sketchy hands yield the big payoffs. Obviously, it’s important to change your ranges based on position and the players you suspect will be playing the hand post flop.
Bond18
Nice call with the JTo against Hellmuth (Episode 3 (1/4) at 2:50 below). I think the turn call is really standard, but the river was tough. One thing to consider is going into the turn when you check you need to have a plan. When you quickly check, then Phil bets, and you think it over a ton, you're telling Phil you're not really sure of your hand strength. In the future, consider pausing before you check, coming up with a rough plan for Phil's action, be it check, bet of 1/3rd pot, 2/3rds pot, full pot, things like that. Otherwise, you give him to good an idea of where you're at…unless of course you're setting him up to bluff the river with what's basically acting.
Silent Mike
I appreciate the advice. I was definitely not trying to induce a bluff. However, I thought the river an easier call than the turn. Remember the deuce/seven side bet changes your range of possibilities. By the time I called, I felt like there was a good chance I had the best of it. With that board, there were a lot of great possibilities, and his betting did not make sense to me. If he had made a straight or a set, I would have expected a bet that he wanted called. Plus he couldn’t be that confident top pair was good there either. His bet was too big if he really wanted a call.
Episode 3 1/4
EdmondDantes
Looks like you missed a bet in the AJo hand (Epsiode 3 2/4 at about 3:40 below) where you flopped two pair against Matusow but check the river.
Silent Mike
Absolutely.
Bond18
Yeah, did you really think he'd check a better hand to you 3 times?
Silent Mike
Probably not. But remember, at the time, I had been getting good starting cards and playing a bunch of hands. For some reason, I was afraid he might be trapping and I was still just getting oriented to the game.
Episode 3 2/4
LakeofFire
In the hand where you held A K v Matusow's A Q (Episode 3 4/4 at about 3:00), you raised pre-flop to $3k and he called.
3A J flop. You bet $6k and he raised another $10k. You called.
Matusow bet out on the 8 turn for $15k and you called. And then bet the Q on the river for $30k.
Can you walk us through your thinking? Worried about a set or two pair? Why didn't you re-raise the turn with a flush draw on the board?
Episode 3 4/4
Silent Mike
I actually put him on an ace with a weaker kicker and figured I’d probably get paid more letting him bet into me if he didn’t have the two pair made yet. I don’t remember thinking for a second he might be on a flush draw. I also wanted to mix up my play. I had been the aggressor in a number of hand before that, and I thought it might be good to show I could be a bit more patient.
Bond18
When you raise Phil Laak on the A63 flop with AT (same Episode 3 4/4 above at about 5:00) are you comfortable getting it all in against him? Otherwise, why are you raising on a flop of this texture?
Silent Mike
Like I said, the deuce/seven changes the texture of the game. I would categorize that raise as more of an exploratory raise. I’d rather find out then what he might have, plus I had position on him. Obviously, I would have had a hard time calling a re-raise.
LakeofFire
Walk us through the thinking when Farha played the hand dark (Episode 5 4/4 at about 6:00). What range of hands did you put Sammy on when he moved all in on an A high board? It was the hand where you called his shove with A9o.
Episode 5 4/4
Silent Mike
Sammy was playing extremely loose, and I figured he would expect me to make a move on him with position no matter what. I figured I was stronger than he suspected and decided it was worth a call. Basically, I was playing the player more than playing the hand.
Bond18
Did you find playing mostly straightforward in this game would be highly profitable due to everyone constantly trying to out maneuver each other with fancy plays?
Silent Mike
I played two days and the tables were very different. A straightforward style would have been most successful the second day and that’s exactly how Negreanu played it. Needless to say, he’s pretty good.
EdmondDantes
We saw you outplay Hellmuth and stack Elezra and Farha. Are you aware that if you had hit the open-ended straight draw on Hellmuth (when he had the set and you had 32 in Episode 4) the poker world would be building a shrine to you?
Silent Mike
It would have been nice.
EdmondDantes
Ok, I have to ask. Your bust-out hand (Episode 7 2/4 about 10:15), the KQo over call with Eli Elezra still to act, looked pretty awful from my couch. Was there something else going on there that we couldn’t see? Late for a flight?
Silent Mike
I wish I could use that as an excuse. I had already announced that it was my last hand, and I wish I had left one hand earlier. That said, I don’t feel that it was quite as poor as it looked on TV. With 55k in the pot already, I knew Sammy would make a move with anything and I felt that I had ten outs (4 tens, 3 queens, and 3 kings) against him. Plus, with us both all in, we’d have an opportunity to negotiate some sort of deal. Jamie had folded out of turn, and I knew Elezra only had slightly more than Sammy.
I went all in thinking I could possibly get Ely off a hand by looking stronger, and if he made a call, I still had four outs there. He made a good call, and I looked like a donkey thinking my gut shot was worth an all-in bet. However, if Ely had folded, I believe I would have had positive expected value for calling Sammy with $125k in the pot. As it turned out, Sammy had one of my tens and I put $75k into the pot that only had $35k of expected value.
Needless to say, I needed a lot of things to break my way for my all-in move to have had positive expected value, and then I needed to get lucky on the turn or the river. It’s not my proudest moment, and it was probably time for me to leave.
Editor's note
If you're curious, Mike’s bust-out hand develops in Episode 7 2/4 at about 10:00.
Episode 7 2/4
Mike raised $3k with KQ.
Jamie Gold called with 64.
Eli Elezra raised to $13k with AA
Sammy Farha called with T7.
Mike and Jamie both called. Pot = $53,000
Flop was J 7 9.
Sammy moved in from the blind for $67,000. Total pot was $120,000.
Next to act. Mike says “One sec.” and Jamie folds out of turn thinking Mike has folded. It’s $67k to Mike to call; he thinks for a second and MOVES in for his last $75k with two overs and an inside straight draw.
Episode 7 3/4
Against Sammy alone, Mike was about 30% to win the hand from the flop. Interestingly, if Sammy had moved in with only an open-ended straight draw (86, for example), Mike would’ve been a 2 to 1 favorite to win the hand versus Sammy alone. But assuming Sammy’s moving in with a pair and a draw, a draw or a monster, you can figure Mike’s EV using our Evaluator as seen below.
As you can see in the calculation above, at best, it’s a breakeven proposition. If you want to run it yourself, try the TwoRags EV tools..
The bigger problem, of course, is that Eli is still to act with his aces and calls the additional $75k. Total pot is $271k-ish.
With Eli’s AA in the mix, Mike is a big dog…
AA 61% > T7 26% > KQ 12%
and needs running kings or queens or a jack. They run it twice, there’s no help to Mike either time and he’s out, down $2k for the two-day session.
*End of editor's note*
Bond18
How much did you win in this game in total?
Silent Mike
I won $170k the first day and lost $172k the second day. I finished down two grand for the sessions.
BadgerPro
Ok, how about some player observations…
Bond18
Yeah, what players were you most impressed with? What players were you least impressed with?
Silent Mike
First of all, I like everyone. Even Hellmuth surprisingly. I didn’t mix it up much with Daniel, but I think he is incredible. All those guys have had great success and I wouldn’t like to make any conclusion based on ten hours of play which I think has almost no statistical significance. Ask me after 1000 hours. Mori, you listening? Invite me back!
Hellmuth…as self-centered as he seems?
Silent Mike
Probably, but he’s actually pretty funny if you don’t let him get to you.
Bond18
Matusow…would you stake him?
Silent Mike
I would be unlikely to stake anyone. My view is that if you’re that good, why do you need to be staked?
BadgerPro
Laak...was Jennifer Tilly sweating him?
No.
Bond18
Harman…did she even play any hands?
Silent Mike
She played pretty tight which was probably the best strategy at that table.
BadgerPro
Farha…was he nice about you taking his money?
Silent Mike
Farha & Elezra are both fun to play with. But you honestly never know what Farha’s playing. Eli’s a little more straightforward.
Bond18
Daniel Negreanu?
Silent Mike
I didn’t play too many pots with him, but from what I saw there and have seen on other episodes, he’s pretty good at reading people. And I did learn that he’s a vegan.
Bond18
I read somewhere you have had experience playing in LA with Jamie Gold. How would you rate his game? Is he as irritating as guys say he is?
Silent Mike
I like Jamie, and he has never been anything but nice to me. His game is very entertaining to say the least. He can pretty much have any hand in any situation. And he definitely likes to bluff.
Bond18
If you could punch one player in this game with impunity, how many times would you end up punching Hellmuth?
Silent Mike
None. I actually have a lot of respect for him. Phil obviously thinks highly of his own game, but, you have to admit, he’s got some game. I think the fact that he can get in your head even when he is losing is a part of why he is so good. Plus, everybody else at the table was teasing him when he was talking about me in the third person, so it was easier to take.
Bond18
Come on, how big a fish is Bob Safai?
EdmondDantes
Ok, enough. You’ll have to forgive Bond18. He likes controversy, and you’re obviously trying to get invited back.
Silent Mike
I love Bobby. He plays in the home game sometimes. He’s a good guy, and I know he could have some big nights. He also won $200k for the two days while I ended up losing $2k so I can’t really call him the “fish.” [Laughs]
Nath
How often do you talk to other poker players outside of the game setting?
Silent Mike
Not that much. Everybody pretty much has their own life.
BadgerPro
Let’s rate the cocktail service. Blonde or brunette?
Silent Mike
I think my wife is hotter than either waitress.
EdmondDantes
Nice save. Ok, tell us about the Legends of Poker event. How did you happen to play that particular event? Was it really your first ever?
Silent Mike
I never played a tournament until this year. After HSP, I got it in my head that I’d like to see if I could play in a tournament format. With three kids, a wife, and a full time job, it’s difficult to fit a big multi-day tournaments into my schedule, and I didn’t have much interest in the $30 buy-in type event. The WSOP event that fit my schedule was the Omaha $10k buy-in. I decided to try it even though I’m not an Omaha player. I busted out with five minutes left in the first day but really enjoyed the challenge and felt like making the top 20% was a good start.
The next tournament I played was the Legends of Poker event, and I clearly had some good luck. I haven’t had a chance to play another one and I didn’t get to play the WPT event at the Bike even though I won a seat by winning the $2k buy-in event. I’m looking forward to playing another big event, though. It was a blast.
EdmondDantes
Any interesting hands on the path to the final table? Any gross suck-outs to get there?
Silent Mike
I never really was short stacked throughout and I was the chip leader going into the final two tables. Probably the biggest hand was cracking pocket aces with a flopped two pair. I was in the big blind and the aces had only made a minimum raise so I sort of fell into it.
EdmondDantes
Jimmy Tran and Shannon Shorr were at your final table. Any observations?
Silent Mike
Not really. Like I said, I’m new to tournaments. And everyone was new to me.
EdmondDantes
Ok, a couple of the guys want to know what you do.
Silent Mike
Shoot.
Nath
What’s a hedge fund manager do? In other words, what do you actually do for a living?
Silent Mike
I manage money for high net worth individuals and institutions. We try to put together a portfolio where our longs outperform our shorts. So far, we’ve been pretty good at it. I pretty much spend my day analyzing investments and positions and figuring out where we’re going to invest next.
Nath
What do you think you've learned in the business world that translates to poker?
Silent Mike
With investing, you want to develop edges and investing patterns that lead to repeated success. You also want to make investments appropriate to your risk tolerance and the conviction you have in your edge. Needless to say, these have relevance to poker strategy.
Nath
What do you think about all the kids who currently play for a living? Any advice you would give to them, coming into a relatively large sum of money at a young age, as to how to manage it for their future?
Silent Mike
I would think playing poker full-time would be a tough life. And if you make some dough, save it. It’s a lot easier to lose than it is to make.
Nath
How much effort do you put in to try to improve your poker?
Silent Mike
I like the game and have gone through different phases in my life when I have read a number of books and run numbers on various scenarios. Most recently, I’ve been trying to work on my tournament strategy. Historically, I’ve been strictly a cash game player.
LakeofFire
What poker books have you read? Any ones you thought were particularly good?
Silent Mike
I found Harrington’s books on tournament play to be particularly helpful to me.
EdmondDantes
What’s your favorite casino/card room? Favorite game?
Silent Mike
I don’t play much in card clubs. Just home games mostly. And on TV. [Laughs]
EdmondDantes
Ever play online at all?
Silent Mike
Never for real money.
EdmondDantes
Play money? Seriously?
Silent Mike
Yup. The only hold’em tournament I played prior to the Legends event was a play money event on Full Tilt.
EdmondDantes
Ha!…that’s classic. What’s next? Any tournaments coming up?
Silent Mike
I would like to play some more tournaments but haven’t found the time yet. I’m definitely up for it, though. Let me know next time you’re going to Las Vegas and we’ll mix it up.
EdmondDantes
Definitely. Well, listen, thanks for spending a few minutes with us. We appreciate the look from the inside of the HSP game and the LoP event. If you get invited back, don’t forget your friends at TwoRags!
Silent Mike
No problem. See you at the tables!
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