Hand histories: The Soap Box

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Suckout, or odds draw?

So, after work yesterday, I went to go play some cards at my local dog track. Not feeling like buying in short to the various NL games (it seemed like everyone had a couple buyins in front of them, and I hate playing short), I sat down in the only limit game spread in the state, $2-$4 (yeah, yeah, I know, tiny. State law limits the bets to $5 in limit, so it's what they can spread. Deal.). The following hand came up when we were 9-handed:

I'm on the SB, dealt 4 5. Everyone limps, I complete, the BB checks. That's $15 in the pot after rake and jackpot.

The flop comes A 2 7.

I check, the BB, a fairly predictable rock, bets out, 4 callers (gotta love low limit, hopes and prayers are worth a call!), 3 folds, and it's a $2 bet into a $24 pot (after rake) to me. 12:1 for a gutshot, backdoor flush (albeit a bad one), and implied odds after that? Sure, $2 is good for 11:1 odds. The SB folds, and we see the turn 6-handed in a $26 pot. (Note: I did not raise here to build a pot for a turn draw as that has been done earlier, and it caused a pretty good clearing of the table; I'd have likely forced everyone but the BB out, thus killing my odds play. Were I in late position, rather than the SB, I'd consider it.).

The turn is the 6.

All of a sudden my hand looks pretty good -- 6 straight outs, 9 flush outs. I check, the BB bets out, there's a caller (who has me slightly worried that he's on a flush draw with something like 8 9, but he could also have 7x), everyone else folds and it's $4 into a $33 pot to me. 8.5:1 pot odds, I'm delighted, it's just under 7:1 for my straight, and just over 2:1 if my flush is good. Call. 3-handed, $37 pot.

River, a 3. I've got the nuts. I check, BB bets, the in-between caller folds, I raise, BB thinks about it, says "you can't have been drawing with 45," and calls.

"Nope, I wasn't drawing with 45. I was drawing with 45 suited." He mucks his cards (probably Ax), and begins bitching about how you can't keep the drawing hands out.

Which is true -- when the drawing hand isn't riding on the schooling effect of fish. Pull a good pot ($52, of which $16 was mine), AND put the player to my left on tilt, what isn't to like?

Did I misplay here?

Sometimes, even when you win, you might have played wrong. Background: I'm a limit player, almost totally; I'm good at the math of limit, and not so good at the psychology and "touchy-feely" nature of NL. However, with the new poker laws in Florida, no-limit is the game (the law says that the maximum bet in limit can be $5, but no-limit with a max $100 buyin is fine, so $1-$2 NL is becoming common, and is supposedly fishy).

So, I sat down to get some cheap NL practice, playing 5¢-10¢ NL, with the basic strategy of "any 21 in blackjack, any connectors totaling 17 to 20 in blackjack, any pair, and suited connectors as low as 56 for a limp. Tighten up a lot to preflop raises -- AA, KK, QQ, AK and that's about it, unless it's a small raise and there's calling action already" (is this a viable basic strategy? I know it ignores position, but is it a workable baseline to start from?) when I was dealt the following hand (immediately after trapping the best player -- who I call Tight Winner -- with top 2 pair against his overpair for $5; 87s holds up to crack JJ!):

DeadMoney is at seat 1 with $5.34.
TylerDurden is at seat 2 with $14.98.
NewPlayer is at seat 4 with $6.
Loose-aggressive is at seat 5 with $10.92.
Tight winner is at seat 6 with $11.06.

(There are actually 10 players, but since only 4 took the flop, those are the ones I worred about)

The button is at seat 3.

NewPlayer posts the small blind of $.05.
Loose-aggressive posts the big blind of $.10.
DeadMoney posts out of turn for $.15($.05 dead blind).

Dealt to TylerDurden: 2 2


5 players fold, including Tight Winner. DeadMoney checks. TylerDurden calls. 1 fold. NewPlayer calls. Loose-aggressive checks.

Flop (board: 2 T 4):

NewPlayer checks. Loose-aggressive bets $.40. DeadMoney folds. TylerDurden raises to $1.65. NewPlayer folds. Loose-aggressive calls.

Turn (board: 2 T 4 K):

Loose-aggressive checks. TylerDurden bets $3.75. Loose-aggressive goes all-in for $9.17. TylerDurden calls.

River (board: 2 T 4 K 7):

(no action in this round)


Loose-aggressive shows A T.
Loose-aggressive has a pair of tens.
TylerDurden shows 2 2.
TylerDurden has three deuces.
$1.10 is raked from a pot of $22.09.
TylerDurden wins $20.99 with three deuces.

I mainly wonder:

1: Should I have raised on the flop, with 85¢ in the pot?
2: Should I have raised the value of the pot? Or more/less? If so, why?
3: Should the check-raise on the turn indicated a TT or KK, or even 44? Was it worth calling $9.17 in a total pot of $16.67 (less rake)?
4: Should I have overbet the pot to try and take the hand down on the turn? At that point, there's $3.75 in the pot, and my only opponent has enough in chips to hurt me, so I should try and win right then and there, right?

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